和Mitch关于创客商标与公众熟悉物观念之争的访问

相信大家对过去一周Okumatsu社、Nekotomo众关于商标之争热度还没完全消褪。趁着创客教父Mitch Altman造访中国这段期间，不才我向他请教关于这方面的看法。为了保证意见中立，涉事双方的真实身份我都没有告知他，他也表示不想知道具体双方身份。我们所谈的，只限于某个机器人公司和某一帮老师这些代名词。至于友商身份什么的，倒是说了，反正他们不是肇事者，只是参考信息。

从中立角度出发，不带任何阴谋论的，希望大家对文章不要断章取义。不然我可要站在某一方平衡一下，或者干脆把通过情报渠道得到的涉事者内部聊天记录情报开源了。

我：Hello, Mitch, how's it going? Would you mind sharing some ideas about trademarks or brands?
你好，Mitch，别来无恙？向你讨教一下关于商标和品牌方面的建议方便不？

Mitch: Sure, I'd love to.
很好啊。

我：Since the past week, a conflict happened in between a robotic company and a group of educators. Teachers complained about that company had registered some famous brands as its trademarks. They talked in their WeChat groups and finally received a letter from lawyer. They got angry and shouted this affair out to public.
在过去一周内，一家机器人公司和一群教育者起了冲突。老师们对这个公司注册了知名品牌作为自己商标的行为感到不满，在微信群里讨论导致收到律师信，于是感到愤怒，把这件事情公开化。

Mitch: Registering a trademark that people have already known it is totally wrong. It can be a misleading to the public.
将大众已经熟悉的事物注册成商标是完全错误的，这将导致对公众的误导。

我：Even though the name is not refered to a hardware product， just a software code?
哪怕这个名字本身不是硬件商品，而是一段程序代码？

Mitch: Yes, it shouldn't be accepted by the authority.
没错，当局应该不让它通过。

我：Well, I have to tell you more as I think this case can be easily solved in western countries. In China, software is the writers' business and hardware is related to trademarks. There are two kind of law protections. ArduBlock is a plug-in of some Arduino fans and it has helped a lot. The company registered ArduBlock for its hardware product.
好吧，我觉得在西方社会这个问题会很容易解决，在中国则不是。在中国软件是作家类的事务，而硬件则和商标相关，有两种不同的法律保护手段。ArduBlock是一群Arduino粉丝的插件程序，起很大帮助作用。那个公司将ArduBlock注册成它的硬件产品商标。

Mitch: In US or Europe, it can't be accepted either. If I made a camera and I named it "Glore" and it became famous, you can sell it. But if you sold a bottle of water that's totally not an electronic and you named it "Glore" too, it would be illegal.
在欧美，这也不能被认同。如果我制造了一台相机，命名为“Glore”，并且出了名，你可以卖它。但如果你卖瓶装水的，完全和电子元件无关，你也把它命名为“Glore”，那就违法了。

我：How about I write books? “Glore” can be a story or a biography. In China, code writers are related to story writers due to Chinese laws. Those teachers had some books published and they introduced to students to learn Arduino and ArduBlock.
那如果我出书呢？“Glore”可以是本故事书，或者自传书。在中国，基于法律上，写代码的和写故事的是同类的。那些老师出版了一些书，并给学生来学习Arduino和ArduBlock。

Mitch：It depends. I think law workers know the difference between them. So that company had claimed ArduBlock was its coding product?
这要看情况了。我觉得法律工作者能分出当中的区别。那么说，那个公司也说它的ArduBlock是它的代码产品了？

我：No, it didn't. They produce robotic parts and kits that based on ArduBlock and Arduino.
它没有。他们生产基于ArduBlock和Arduino的机器人配件和套件。

Mitch: Still it was a fucked up. You know I've made a TV-B-Gone. If somebody copied it and name it Trash-B-Gone, it's okay as it doesn't matter to me. But if anyone name it "T V slash B E slash G O N E", it's still wrong.
那还是很操蛋。你知道我做了个电视退散神器，如果有人模仿复制一个，将它命名为“垃圾退散神器”，这是可以的，根本对我影响不了。但如果有人将它命名为“T、V横杠B、E横杠G、O、N、E”，还是不行的。

我：The law will protect it in this case?
这种情况下法律会保护吗？

Mitch：Yes. It also works on public domains. AT&T is a famous company. If somebody registered att.com as a domain and doing stuff whatever he wants, it is illegal.
没错，这对公众域名也同样有效。AT&T是个出名的公司，如果有人注册了att.com作为域名，做自己想做的事情，那就违法了。

我：He may claim that he registered that before AT&T. Or AT&T would talk to him and a transaction would be made.
那他会说我比AT&T注册得早啊？或者AT&T和他之间会有交易和解吧？

Mitch：It doesn't matter. The court would still think this guy try to mislead the public. His domain would be cancelled instantly and belong to AT&T even AT&T hadn't registered it. What AT&T pay for would be a few bucks each year.
这不影响的。法庭仍会认为那家伙企图误导公众。他的域名即时取消，并归属AT&T，即便AT&T没有注册它。AT&T只需每年给几美元域名注册费即可。

（说到这里，感到炒米行为在外国是要被公众深深的恶意给淹死啊……）

我：Then comes to another story. MakeBlock is another company and it had co-operate with that company before. That conpany retailed MakeBlock products. But in Amazon.com, Amazon said that a company must have authority to retail products. So they took a quicker way to solve it - had MakeBlock registered as its trandmark. The same as that happened on Arduino.
这下子还有另一个故事了。MakeBlock是另一家公司，之前和那个公司有合作，那个公司代销MakeBlock产品。但在亚马逊电商平台，亚马逊要求一个公司必须拥有授权才能卖货，于是他们选择了更快的方法——把MakeBlock注册成自己的商标。同样的事情也发生在Arduino身上。

Mitch：But MakeBlock is another famous company...
但是MakeBlock是另一家出名的公司啊……

我：It's interesting that they hadn't registered themselves before...
但玩味的是他们一开始没注册这个品牌……

Mitch：It should take some law protection before. Arduino is big famous and they should know that.
那之前应该做些法律保护手段。Arduino巨出名，他们也知道这件事吧。

我：Yes, Arduino is an AK-47 in makers' world.(We laughed.) But we know that Arduino was divided in two and this is related to one of them.
没错，在创客世界里Arduino就是一把AK-47（我们都笑了。）我们知道之前Arduino一分为二，这应该和其中一方有关。

Mitch：In Shenzhen, I saw a lot of Arduinos were made and sold in an extremely cheap price. 25 kuai you can get one. I don't think that there is a genuine Atmel chip on such a board but they works.
在深圳，我看到很多Arduino板子以很低的成本和价格制造并销售，花上25块你就能弄一块。我觉得上面不会有一颗真正的Atmel芯片，但它们能跑起来。

我：Yes, just make a few patches and the board runs.
是的，只要几个补丁这板子就能跑。

Mitch：Yeah, Arduino is open sourced. They functioned so they didn't mislead the public and it makes Arduino more famous. I had some workshops about soldering before in US and we had solder an Arduino by ourselves.
Arduino是开源硬件，只要达到功能就能做，所以这没有误导公众，还让它更出名了。之前我在美国有些关于焊接的工作坊，我们自己也焊Arduino板子。

我：I've heard that in western countries, there are some organizations like "Free Software Council". They registered trademarks and keep it but they have no ability to manufacture it. They just provide law enforcement.
我听说在西方国家，有些组织类似“自由软件委员会”那种的。他们注册商标，保有商标，但不具备生产产品的能力。他们只提供法律援助。

Mitch：Yeah, that's another solution. It depends who is willing to set up. The important thing is that it should stand in no one's side. Actually you can register your trademark in Hong Kong or even in Vietnam. It's cheaper, but it's totally meaningless. The world won't accept it.
嗯，这是另一种解决办法。不过这看有谁愿意成立。重点是，它不应站在任何一方立场。其实你也可以选择把商标注册在香港或者甚至在越南，价格便宜但完全没意义，世界不会认同它的。

（说到这里，大家心里都知道怎么看了吧？）

我：If someone do offends the public's knowing and it is inmoral but still legal, what would you think?
那如果有人真的冒犯公众认知注册了，不道德但还是合法的，那你怎么看？

Mitch: It's fucked up but I will ignore it. I keep on doing my stuff. We can change the world a little bit by ourselves than just complaining but do nothing real. Making or hacking a thing is more fun than just yealing, right? Yealing may make things go worse and that's another fucked up.
那真蛋疼，但我选择无视它。我还是坚持做自己的事情。我们自己就能够改变一点点这个世界，好过光抱怨不干实事。创作或破解改造东西比发牢骚更有趣，不是吗？发牢骚只会让情况更糟，而且是另一件更恶心的事情。

我：Thank you, Mitch. It's a great idea and I think this can be a referance for Chinese makers or educators. Well, people are coming and we can have the next event in QSpace.
谢谢Mitch，我觉得这对中国创客或教育者们都是很好的参考意见。呃，有人来了，我们看看QSpace接下来的活动是什么吧。

Mitch：You're welcome, Kalimov.
没关系，Kalimov。

其实，补充一个个人意见。虽然说做实体和改造开源硬件没什么区别，都是在实实在在捣腾东西，但这件事情从头到尾来看，就等于是Okumatsu社的开源硬件生产和Nekotomo众的开源软件教材在打架。按照酸溜溜的魔鬼字典方法解说，就是高级寨厂遇上了教书高级匠人。如果教书的一方手里有从头到尾都是自己的原创，不同于世界上已经有的也不基于现行主流的开源类东西，腰板子也会硬不少吧？（就是说，你如果山寨Arduino还说成是自己的，大不了我不玩这个了，我出个更牛叉从硬件到软件都是原创的东东，和你一样有影响力，你能奈我何？）